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Golden dragon

June 2016

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gracewanderer in wing_chun

Wing Chun vs. groundfighting

Does anyone here have experience fighting vs. ground fighting styles with Wing Chun? It's kind of hard to evaluate the effectiveness of a form that you're not supposed to use in sport.


Generally speaking, there are three circumstances where martial arts are used:

1) Combat. This is real fighting, no holds barred, anything goes, you're willingly engaging in a conflict which may involve killing your opponent, for the purpose of war, assassination or murder. This is fighting for the purpose of combat, and it's illegal to participate in combat in our society. Very few people, outside the military or syndicated criminal organizations, train for this kind of fighting.

2) Self-defense. This is where you use whatever techniques are necessary to insure your safety if you or a loved one is attacked. You're only allowed to use as much force as is necessary to remove you from danger, to allow you to escape, or to cause your opponent to flee. If your opponent is debilitated and can no longer fight, you're not allowed to finish him off or punish him. That would be excessive use of force. If he tries to run, you're not allowed to follow him and continue fighting. That would make you a willing participant in combat and you're no longer "defending" yourself. You may have to go as far as killing your opponent but you can only do that if your opponent poses such a threat that you are in fear for your life, or the life of a loved one.

3) Sport fighting, which is where people engage in a contest with rules that limit what techniques are allowed. There's always a referee and specific guidelines as to how long and how far a fight can go. These rules are in place to protect the contestants from seriously injuring each other since the primary goal of such fighting is entertainment, not survival or self-defense. This is the type of fighting that most people use to judge the veracity of fighting styles and techniques, since it's illegal to willingly participate in any other type of fighting.
I'm in the military ;)
In what capacity? Air Force? Marine Recon? Army Infantry? Had any hand-to-hand training?
Army Infantry, currently waiting to return to SF selection. I got the "modern combatives level 1" training, which is just basic ground work.
Careful with that groundwork. It's not a good idea in combat to get tied up with an enemy soldier on the ground while he's got buddies running around. Better to learn how to kill him before he hits the ground, so you can drop him and move on.

Seems that the only other system I've seen that advocates that strategy and even has a clue to how to do it is Krav Maga.
I agree. I don't know why they bother teaching it to us. Presumably we'd go into combat with knives, right? So shouldn't we be taught how to fight with a knife? I can only assume it's because of the recent popularity of MMA.
You're not taught to fight with a knife? I'm surprised.
I'm not SF yet. Infantry (11B-10) aren't taught knife fighting, no.
Then they are probably doing what old Kung Fu instructors (including Yip Man) have been doing for hundreds of years. Giving you something that will make you feel confident in the field without making you too dangerous. You'll learn the real stuff as you become a trusted operator.
Ha ha, I doubt it. Not as an eleven bravo.
Then I guess you'll just have to supplement your training somewhere else.
you want to say, that Yip Man's Wing Tsun is outdated, or what?
I don't know what you mean by "outdated". I suspect you didn't understand my original comment. Do you think it's outdated?
yes, I think so :D

I mean, you're trying to say, that Wing Tsun is not useful in street fighting. Right?
Based on what you say so?
No, I think Wing Chun is very useful in street fighting, provided it's good Wing Chun.